Hi,

I was surfing and found your site through Josiah Q.

What do you think specifically about that first line of the quote from Ellul? It's not entirely clear to me, but it seems that he is only discounting monarchy and theonomy, not that the political and social commentary in the Bible is no more true than in other idealogies. Is that the context given in the rest of the book?

Well, the quote comes broadly in the context of a discussion as to why Ellul abandoned two specific political projects, one being the French Marxist program (i.e. a program based on the overthrow of the capitalist/democratic system), and the other being a program that he and a few other French Christians to effect broad societal change through the instrument of the French Reformed Church. (I don't suppose that was a very helpful sentence -- perhaps this will be more to the point)

Ellul, I believe, is arguing against the systematization of society in general (in a very radical way -- Ellul is a very radical thinker who I cannot buy into completely), and so he is saying that he does not believe the biblical text can be used to support or promote a political, economic, or societal system. For instance, some American Christians tend to attempt to use the biblical text to provide support for the American political and economic system -- this is the sort of thing Ellul is criticising, if I read him correctly (though he certainly would also rule out support for monarchy and especially theonomy). (I think, on my currently limited reading of Ellul, that he would not rule out a negative use of the biblical text, i.e. for critique) (I hope that was more coherent)

The part of the quote that particularly intrigued me, though, was the rest of the quote: "a special courage, a spirit of inventiveness, a lucidity, a radicality, an ability to change, a desire for justice and liberty, all of which come from the Gospel and which no one else can have" and so forth. This seems to me to be something which we Christians too often are not characterized by.

The second part of the quote perked my ears as well. I think I ought to read the book.

What does he propose in stead of the systemization of society?

Definently read the book, its been worth my time. Its the only one of his books that I've finished yet, though, so I'm not really sure what he proposes instead of the systemization of society... he is somewhat sympathetic (at least in one place) to the view that we cannot construct a vision of what a better society would look like until we have already begun to deconstruct the current system:

"....I don't offer an explanation, a ready-made system. And I refuse to do so quite consciously. Even if I had in my pocket the design for the ideal society and the means to achieve it, I would not give it...
[interviewer's comment:] Because the design does not exist..."

The thing about Ellul is, he will say something like that, which might only be so much propoganda in the service of apathy if it were deployed by some other thinker, but then he will turn around and offer examples of concrete actions he has taken in his life that have produced results to move society in the direction he believes it needs to move. This is what really impresses me about him, even more than just his thought.